Are “Fundamentalists” all the same?

My Response to a Progressive Christian who opposes criticism of Islam:

Thanks again for your willingness to cross the isle to engage in substantive dialogue. You wrote:

•  “What you're writing is that reading the Quran literally always leads to the sort of extremism that is causing so much harm.”

Just about always! However, as you correctly point out, there are also peaceable verses in the Koran. However, the imams – the teachers – correctly understand that these were the earlier verses given before Muhammad had an army, and these have been replaced by the jihadic verses. Therefore, all of the Western commentators that I know of observe that as Muslims get deeper into their holy writings, they become more radicalized.

•  “Reading the Bible literally, fundamentalist Christians have pushed for the teaching of the Creation story in science classes instead of evolution, justified the prejudice and discrimination of gays and lesbians…”

I certainly grant you some of this, but I don’t see how you can compare legitimate political democratic persuasion to Islamic rape, kidnapping and genocide!

As I tried to argue before, perhaps without sufficient clarity, we are all fundamentalistic about certain things. You are fundamentalistic against extremism and violence, as you should be. I would also assume that the principles of justice and love are also fundamental non-negotiables for you.

Admittedly, we derive our values from the Bible. However, is the source for your values any more trustworthy than ours? And what if the Bible is actually God’s Word, as many of us believe? Shouldn’t we devote ourselves to it?

You will probably point out that the Muslims also believe that their own holy writings are God’s Words. Of course, this is a critical issue. Has God spoken to humanity, and are there ways to know this? I think that there are many ways – both subjection and objective (miracles, fulfilled prophecy, changed lives/societies, internal and external consistency…).

•  “A literal interpretation of any holy book … naturally leads to an extremism that you find in fundamentalist Islam and in fundamentalist Christianity.”

“Literal” is not an accurate word. Instead, we try to interpret the Bible as it was intended to be understood. Some of it is highly figurative and some isn’t. More importantly, it depends on what one is fundamentalistic about. As a Christian, I follow the New Testament, which teaches me to put the needs of the other before my own. Although I fail badly at this – and this continues to humble me – I trust that the Lord forgives me and is delighted when I get off my butt and reassert myself to love others.

Love also demands that I cry out about the victimization of the innocent. In our world, the vast majority of these are Christians, as the jacket of “The Global War on Christians” by CNN writer John L. Allen Jr. states:

• From Iraq and Egypt to Sudan and Nigeria, from Indonesia to the Indian subcontinent, Christians in the early twenty-first century are the world’s most persecuted religious group. According to the secular International Society for Human Rights, 80 percent of violations of religious freedom in the world today are directed against Christians.

Allen writes:

•  “The Open Doors” estimate, based on decades of tracking the realities of persecution in some of the darkest corners of the earth, is that roughly one hundred million Christians today suffer interrogation, arrest, and even death for their faith, with the bulk located in Asia and the Middle East. The overall total makes Christians the most at-risk group for violations of religious freedom. (37)

I would love to turn my back on these painful realities, but I cannot. I also fail to understand how others who call themselves “Christian” can be so dismissive of these realities.

To a “Moderate” Islamic Apologist

If only these peaceful verses did govern Islam, I wouldn't be writing to you right now. There many religions with which I disagree with more than Islam, but I don't write against them - Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism.... This is because they are not murdering my people the way that Islam is throughout almost the entire Islamic world. Scholar and writer, Raymond Ibrahim, wrote about the extent of this slaughter:

• From one end of the Muslim world to another, Christians are suffering under the return of Sharia…Whenever Muslims are in power or getting more power, churches are outlawed, burned or bombed, while Bibles and crucifixes are confiscated and destroyed. Freedom of speech – to speak positively of Christianity or critically of Islam – is denied, often on pain of death…Christian women and children are routinely abducted, raped, and forced to convert to Islam. (Crucified Again, 8)

In addition to this, tens of thousands of Christians are routinely being slaughtered. Why is this so? Because justification for this is found in your holy books! And here’s what some of your own people say about the Koranic teachings:

• "If we follow the rules of interpretation developed from the classical “science of Koranic interpretation, it is not possible to condemn terrorism in religious terms. It remains completely true to the classical rules in its evolution of sanctity for its own justification. This is where the secret of its theological strength lies." -- Egyptian scholar Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd

• "Many thanks to God, for his kind gesture, and choosing us to perform the act of Jihad for his cause and to defend Islam and Muslims. Therefore, killing you and fighting you, destroying you and terrorizing you, responding back to your attacks, are all considered to be great legitimate duty in our religion." -- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his fellow 9/11 defendants

• "Allah on 480 occasions in the Holy Koran extols Muslims to wage jihad. We only fulfil God's orders. Only jihad can bring peace to the world." -- Taliban terrorist Baitullah Mehsud

• "Jihad, holy fighting in Allah's course, with full force of numbers and weaponry, is given the utmost importance in Islam....By jihad, Islam is established....By abandoning jihad, may Allah protect us from that, Islam is destroyed, and Muslims go into inferior position, their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligation and duty in Islam on every Muslim." -- Times Square car bomb terrorist Faisal Shahzad

I wish more Muslims would live according to the peaceable verses. However, there seems to be a general consensus among Islamic Scholars that the verses preaching Jihad and the subjugation of all other peoples now take precedence over the earlier peaceful verses, which have been abrogated. Here’s the commentary of Khan’s Noble Koran on the subject of abrogation:

• Then Allah revealed the order to discard the obligations and commanded Muslims to fight against all the Mushrikun [Polytheist and Trinitarians] as well as against the people of the Scriptures if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizya (tax) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. At first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted and after that it was made obligatory against them that start the fighting against you and against all those who worship others along with Allah [Trinitarians]. (From the index on “Jihad.”)

I wish it were otherwise!

A Dialogue with Two Muslim Apologists

Many will disagree with the way I interact with Muslims, but I thought it might be profitable to publish this exchange and hear your responses. I will begin the exchange with the final and perhaps best response by one of the Muslim apologists:

MUSLIM APOLOGIST: In the end of the day you have the same narrow-mindedness as the extremists and terrorists you condemn. Just like they see things twisted and black and white and ignore the vast Scholastic tradition of Islam, so do you. This is counter-productive to your "goal." Your aim is to defeat radicalism and terrorism right? So is mine. Yet you legitimise the extremists and help them establish their corruption as the true version of Islam, like they think themselves. Isn't that ironic? Why don't you help us Traditionalists to further marginalise the extremists? Isn't it a better and more palatable version of Islam and more conducive to peace? Why do you reject us and open your arms to the extremist and corrupt version of Islam? Oy vey!

(I HAD INSINUATED THAT THE MOST FAITHFUL FORM OF THE ISLAM OF THE KORAN WAS THAT OF THE EXTREMISTS.)

ME: I want you to know that I did appreciate your response. My heart even goes out to your invitation to oppose extremism together. I also want you to know that, as a Christian, I have a deep regard for those who have placed God above everything else in their lives.

However, I have deep doubts that Muslims can live together peaceably and equally with others (even with other Islamic sects). Here are my doubts:

1. Even though I find many Muslims highly likeable, I never know if I can trust them because of their doctrine of Taqiyya which authorizes them to lie to the infidel (kufr) to promote Islam. 

2. Along with this are the various Koranic verses that forbid a Muslim to befriend a Christian for any other reason than Dawa (making converts).

3. Even though there are genuine disagreements between the “extremists” and Muslims like yourself, it seems that the disagreements are peripheral – disagreements about strategy and not fundamentals. It is apparent that the vast majority of Muslims (even Western Muslims) still want to impose Shariah Law on the rest of us forcing us to live in submission to Islam. This is what the surveys show!

4. Although I agree with you that there have been other, more liberal Islamic interpretive traditions, I question how significant they are or will be. They seem to have little influence. All Muslim countries seem to hold to the doctrine of Abrogation (even if not formally) in which Allah has substituted the later more violent verses for the earlier more peaceful ones. Consequently, in all Islamic nations, the religious minorities must live in fear and subjection to Islam. I can see little hope that this situation will be different in the West if Islam prevails.

5. Indeed, when you and Ismaeel have resorted to personally attacking me, even though I have been perfectly honest with the both of you, it tells me that you are still part of the Islam that refuses any criticism and consequently any real dialogue. If I am wrong, please prove me so!

6. Dhimmitude has been a painful reality throughout Islamic history and it continues to be so.

If you are serious about unmasking the “Islam” of the extremists, then challenge them to a public debate in English about the real Islam. (And I’m sure that they would jump at such an opportunity!) Go on record publicly about your true beliefs. Perhaps then some degree of trust can be established.