
Darwin had constructed his “tree of life” to demonstrate how one phylum (category) of creatures had evolved from a morphologically similar, but simpler grouping. Consequently, it illustrated how amphibians descended from morphologically similar fish and how reptiles then descended from amphibians. However, there was a problem. The evidence – the fossil record – couldn’t be coaxed into agreeing with this construction. Even today, the problem has become so serious, that many evolutionists have abandoned trying to prove evolution using the fossil record. Palaeontologist David Raup of the Field Museum of Natural History said,
“We are now about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species, but the situation hasn’t changed much. The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin’s time.”
Eldredge [American Museum of Natural History] makes an astonishing admission:
“We palaeontologists have said that the history of life supports [the story of gradual adaptive change] knowing all the while it does not…I tried in vain to document examples of the kind of slow directional change we all thought ought to be there every since Darwin told us that natural selection should leave precisely such a tell-tale signal…I found instead that once species appear in the fossil record they tend not to change very much at all. Species remain imperturbably, implacably resistant to change as a matter of course – often for millions of years.”
As a result of this embarrassment, new lines of evidence have been sought and promoted to support evolution. Evolutionists are now trying to reconstruct Darwin’s “tree” based upon molecular or genetic inter-phyla similarities. However, their “tree” remains a dishevelled mess according to the New Scientist:
“Congruence between molecular phylogenies is as elusive as in morphology…Congruence between morphological phylogenies is the exception rather than the rule. With molecular phylogenies, all generated within he last couple of decades, the situation is little better.”
This failure argues persuasively against a common descent among the various species. Instead, the findings paint the picture of a mosaic or patchwork quilt, where we find qualities, like flight or luminescence, sprinkled among admittedly unrelated species. This tends to point to a common Designer and not to a common descent. Based upon this evidence, Thomas and Sherwin write:
“The almost universal phenomenon – that experts can find no objective basis to link one kind of creature to another – is not yet widely acknowledged in the scientific community. General biology texts still often depict phylogenies with smooth progressions of creations evolving into ‘higher’ forms, but these largely ignore the rampant disagreement found at every level in the technical literature. Perhaps this is because many scientists are unwilling to face the broad implication of all these studies: If agreement on what has evolved into what cannot be reached within closely ‘related’ creatures, then what confidence is there that objective evolutionary lineages will ever be found between totally different creatures? And if there are no such lineages, then there never was any Darwinian evolution.” (ICR, May 2009)
However, who cares about the facts when so many other more important things are at stake like lifestyle choices, career and prestige!


That you would use discussions against gradualism as well as cite the ICR in your favour speaks volumes, Mr mann.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you ought to read the primary literature instead of quote mining and utilising "pseudo-scientific" research institutes such as ICR etc.
Your need to be right seems to heavily outweigh your desire to understand.
Havoc,
ReplyDeleteThe quotes that I took from ICR were quotes of evolutionists!
I guess when you accuse me of "quote mining," you are accusing me of taking these quotes out of context, thereby distorting the intended meaning.
If this is your charge, then you must demonstrate this by enlarging upon the quoted passage, showing that I and ICR are guilty of distortion. Without doing so, you are merely making groundless charges.
Mann: guess when you accuse me of "quote mining," you are accusing me of taking these quotes out of context, thereby distorting the intended meaning.
ReplyDeleteExactly right.
Perhaps if you provided links to the complete quotes (or at least, where you got them from), it would be easier to investigate the context. As it is it can be difficult to know where the quote is from. If you're getting them from ICR, who are well known for this sort of thing (along with AiG and other YEC organisations), then you ought to be looking for better sources for your information, or at least looking at the quote in context yourself.
For example, the Eldridge quote doesn't seem to be that astonishing, nor support your contention, when understood in context.
The Quote Mine project at talk origins is a great resource you can use in the future before citing quotes from unreliable sources such as ICR and their ilk.
Havok,
ReplyDeleteYou can't expect expect someone with a limited viewpoint to broaden there perspective enough to understand the true meaning of certain quotations. Mann will always take what he wants out of quotations. He will do so solely to support his psychological state of mind.
Hi Dusk.
ReplyDeleteI understand that, which is why I mentioned Mann's need to be right outweighs any desire to understand.
I called him out for quote mining on an earlier post, and justified my claims there, but he didn't learn to check his sources more thoroughly.
I suppose it's easier to assume that those who agree with us are right, rather than to actually investigate, especially when the conclusion has the possibility to shatter our cherished beliefs. Psychology and neurology show that this trait is shared amongst humanity (and perhaps, to a lesser extent, other animals?).
It does seem, however, that Mann and those like him refuse to acknowledge this fact of life, and investigate things more thoroughly as a result. Instead, a surface appraisal of such things is deemed appropriate - after all they already "know" that evolution is false and the bible is the word of (a) God.
Havok,
ReplyDeleteif you take the time to research some of the debates that Mann and myself have had in the past, you will recognize a pattern of misquotations, breaches of context, and information so outdated it can only be considered obsolete. what is important to remember is that David Mann invests a majority of his time supporting his thoughts and opinions. Even if he is proven to be wrong, with a shadow of a doubt, his pride will always protect his fragile psyche. Even if you manage to outwit him with pure logic and unequivocal evidence, he will only censor you like he did me. He will claim that you have slander him in some way, or that you insulted him. Regardless, this blog is not for individuals with opinions; it is for individuals who wish to blindly follow a set of rules and guidelines. Guidelines set in place thousands of years ago, that they are deemed to be the very words of God himself. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Havok...what Mann refuses to understand is that faith is the only evidence there is. Even the bible excepts that to be true. Individuals like Mann futily spend their lives trying to defend their God, as if their God needed to be defended. If God is so great, then there is no use for individuals like Mann. If God needs Mann, if God needs this blog, then he truly has no power at all because Mann has but a few followers, one little known book, and a few local seminars in a place where seminars are like wine tastings, here one day, gone and forgotten. Mann is but a whisper amongst the teaming multitudes of the logical. If he wishes to spread his misinformation, even those as weak as wikipedia could stand against his twisted logic.
Charging me with misquotations is a serious and libelous charge. Please justify your charge! If you continue to bring these unsupportable charges against me, you will force me to consider taking legal action.
ReplyDeleteMann,
ReplyDeleteThis isn't the first time someone has charged you with taking things out of context. In the past, you've taken scientific data out of context. You've twisted scientific theories and laws to support you're statements. I dare you to seek legal action. This entire website is proof of your ignorant, misinformative, rantings. You can delete my posts if you want, but they are still there. All the courts have to do is look them up on Waybackmachine.com. This is obviously just a very sensitive subject to you, but you are not beyond reproach. I have provide evidence of your misquoting in the past. If you can't remember, go waste your money on legal representation to research the conversations we've had so they can explain to you what I mean and why you can't sue. Stop acting like a child and grow up David. The best example of your twisted logic is you ridiculous notion that there is no proof that anything happens naturally. If you think statements like that will hold up in a court of law, be my guest. People need to know the truth about what you say. Next time provide sources to your quotations and supposed scientific research. Had you done that in the beginning, none of this would happen.
Mann: If you continue to bring these unsupportable charges against me, you will force me to consider taking legal action.
ReplyDeleteOooh, scary.
You didn't even read the comment I made where I justified my charge of quote mining, did you?
As Dusk said, had you actually done some research of your own, these charges wouldn't stick. Of course, then you might find that your cherished beliefs were false, and we couldn't have that, could we?